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Post by xeniarules on May 19, 2017 15:32:12 GMT -5
I think this was the worst season finale that I've seen since the S1, kinda disappointing, even worse than S8 and that one was pretty bad.
The weird thing is, I've usually look forward to each episode but as this season progressed, not so much. It's been a meh season so far and after seeing the finale last night, it's just underwhelming.
Singer and Dabb have been doing a disservice to this series. They should have just stayed as producers and writers. This series needs someone who can see a season as a whole, as one continous storyline, with only a few tangents that enhanced the story. Instead of being this disjointed and jumping all over the place season as it has been so far.
Kinda makes me wish that Sera Gamble was back, her seasons seem better now. hehe.
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Post by thesnowleopard on May 19, 2017 17:04:41 GMT -5
How does that compare to previous finales? I don't remember the previous ratings... (and apparently there's a few people who checked out after the first part?) Last season, the finale was 0.7/3 and 1.84 million at the 9pm slot: tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/wednesday-final-ratings-may-25-2016/On average, shows in the 8pm slot get higher ratings than 9pm because they have an extra hour of live same-night watching time. But people generally stick around for the season finale.
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Post by thesnowleopard on May 19, 2017 17:06:37 GMT -5
Kinda makes me wish that Sera Gamble was back, her seasons seem better now. hehe. Only because you already know how bad she got. Imagine if she'd stayed on past season seven. I doubt the show would have made it this far.
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Post by anouck9 on May 19, 2017 17:25:43 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm hoping that someone, somewhere, is gonna say something but I'm not very hopeful. I am, however, a little perplexed at Dabb and Singer strategy. Are they purposefully trying to piss people off? Killing Cas didn't go well in season 7 if I remember correctly... And they really need to keep the Cas and Destiel fans on board, because a lot of the Deans fans are leaving, and while the Sam fans may be loud, I'm not sure there's enough of them to sustain the show... Although I just had the most horrible possible idea for them to bring "Cas" back, and I'm afraid I jinwed us just by thinking it...
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Post by thesnowleopard on May 19, 2017 17:34:07 GMT -5
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Post by idahoforspn on May 19, 2017 18:29:47 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm hoping that someone, somewhere, is gonna say something but I'm not very hopeful. I am, however, a little perplexed at Dabb and Singer strategy. Are they purposefully trying to piss people off? Killing Cas didn't go well in season 7 if I remember correctly... And they really need to keep the Cas and Destiel fans on board, because a lot of the Deans fans are leaving, and while the Sam fans may be loud, I'm not sure there's enough of them to sustain the show...[br I'm reading a lot of folks that are thrilled with the ratings. They went up. And they have excuses for 23 losing viewers and think it's no big deal. If Dabb and Singer think that way there will be no changes next season. Do we have any proof Dean fans are leaving besides what friends are doing? Lot of folks are saying all the shows are down so the drop in ratings has nothing to do with the quality of writing.
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Post by anouck9 on May 19, 2017 18:41:07 GMT -5
Well, I seem to remember that SPN kept steady when other shows were tanking before... And ratings went actually up when Carver came on board.... While I don't know if all the people who left are Dean's fans, the ratings went down between the beginning and the end of the season... But anyway, if they don't want to see, they won't. And honestly, if someone is gonna act, it's not gonna be Dabb or Singer, it's someone up. Dabb seems at the very least the kind of showrunners that woudl put it down to people not getting his evision", and never on his vision being lame. And Singer has never had any problem with the Sam show so... The bright side is that it's gonna be the easiest hiatus ever...
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Post by saltgunempty on May 19, 2017 19:01:57 GMT -5
I think it's very possible or even likely that bad writing got them more than any specific subset of fans, tbh. The underlying issue with Dean in regard to casual viewers is that they limited the use of their best actor and most dynamic character who could have helped gloss over some of that. They pushed a major plotline that was gruelling to watch in the BMoL and Lucifer is a character I find annoying more than anything. I bet they've lost Dean fans but there have been bigger problems.
i also thought the crappy British characters and their "high tech" lair made the show look cheap. So did that alternate universe.
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Post by thesnowleopard on May 19, 2017 20:34:16 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm hoping that someone, somewhere, is gonna say something but I'm not very hopeful. I am, however, a little perplexed at Dabb and Singer strategy. Are they purposefully trying to piss people off? Killing Cas didn't go well in season 7 if I remember correctly... And they really need to keep the Cas and Destiel fans on board, because a lot of the Deans fans are leaving, and while the Sam fans may be loud, I'm not sure there's enough of them to sustain the show...[br I'm reading a lot of folks that are thrilled with the ratings. They went up. And they have excuses for 23 losing viewers and think it's no big deal. If Dabb and Singer think that way there will be no changes next season. Do we have any proof Dean fans are leaving besides what friends are doing? Lot of folks are saying all the shows are down so the drop in ratings has nothing to do with the quality of writing. The usual suspects will try to shout down anyone who says anything "mean" about their show. On the other side, you'll get the people who are hate-watching (though they seem to have quieted down this season). But there's been a lot of anger from people who are in neither camp and it's been pretty loud on social media. When posters are negative in Spoiler TV, that's saying something. Also, keep in mind that while the show is much safer than most shows on the CW, and doing better than most, the expectations for it are still not the same as for other shows and the alarm bells probably ring sooner. That's because the CW wants to keep it around as long as J2 are willing to do it. It's not like Riverdale or Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, where the show will likely get four half-seasons and then get yanked. The show did well enough in season seven to get moved off Fridays when Pedowitz came on board, but Gamble still was out the door for season eight. So, the network seems to be keeping a close eye on how things go with the fan reaction.
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Post by idahoforspn on May 19, 2017 20:45:43 GMT -5
The usual suspects will try to shout down anyone who says anything "mean" about their show. On the other side, you'll get the people who are hate-watching (though they seem to have quieted down this season). But there's been a lot of anger from people who are in neither camp and it's been pretty loud on social media. When posters are negative in Spoiler TV, that's saying something. Also, keep in mind that while the show is much safer than most shows on the CW, and doing better than most, the expectations for it are still not the same as for other shows and the alarm bells probably ring sooner. That's because the CW wants to keep it around as long as J2 are willing to do it. It's not like Riverdale or Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, where the show will likely get four half-seasons and then get yanked. The show did well enough in season seven to get moved off Fridays when Pedowitz came on board, but Gamble still was out the door for season eight. So, the network seems to be keeping a close eye on how things go with the fan reaction. I sure hope your right. I love this show and don't want it to fail now. Of course Jensen's acting brought me on (4years ago)and it is the only reason I stay. I just rewatched both episodes and they were much better when I was already prepared for the crap and just focused on Dean. Man, he nailed that whole episode.
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Post by paforrest on May 20, 2017 17:39:38 GMT -5
I'm going to post my thoughts here since I can dump on both episodes at once. I wasn't going to watch the night the episodes aired because I haven't been watching live; but at the last minute a pal said she wanted to come over with wine and we'd drink and power through it together. So I said, WTF, come on over. How bad can it be if we're sloshed? There is no amount of alcohol in the world to make what I saw Thursday night go down any better. I even forced myself - and I do mean FORCED - to go back and watch all the parts I ignored a second time on Friday. And while the best thing I can say is that Jensen, naturally, knocked it out of the park in 22, the "saving mommy" material he was given didn't resonate with me at all. I mean, 12:22 was the episode Jensen liked?!?!? Has he given up so completely - and my feeling is that he has to an extent - that just because Dean finally got to use the grenade launcher, he was content enough? Because I can't see any other reason he'd have liked this episode. Again, yes, he had all the emo stuff with Mary, and Jensen is very very good with those scenes and he knows it. But normally the emo stuff isn't what stands out as a factor he loves in any given episode. So I still think it was the stupid grenade launcher - which was cool - and the little bit of fight he got with Ketch at the end that he liked. Yeah, good, but not enough of it. Speaking of Ketch, when he was pointing the gun at Dean, and you knew Mary would come up behind him and kill Ketch before he could kill Dean - SADLY - I was literally screaming at the TV for Ketch to hurry up and pull the trigger. IF THERE'S A Chuck YOU WILL KILL OFF DEAN WINCHESTER RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW IT WOULD BE A FREAKING MERCY KILLING HURRY HURRY HURRY!!!!!!!!!! To no avail. What absolutely destroyed my rating of this particular episode was the fact that the whole thing with Dean and Mary was just so Dean could PIMP SAM! Are you kidding me? OMG, even Dean no longer recalls that he went to Hell! It really didn't happen, it never happened in DABB WORLD!!!!!! I HATE ANDREW DABB, I HATE BO BO BERENS, I HATE EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS SHOW! And I can't even with all the lame Sam monologues and his raging narcissism on display for everyone to see and revel in. Screw you, Sam. I saw all this described as textbook Sam fan fiction. I agree, it came off exactly like that. Could it get any worse? Glad you asked, because yes it could - see episode 23. Obviously neither Mary nor Luci are dead, more's the pity, so they're coming back. And we're likely to get more of alt!Bobby too. And Kelly's Gollum baby will either heal Castiel, and then they'll probably run off together having adventures of their own that the Winchesters aren't involved in - certainly not second-banana cape-holder sidekick Dean. Or, as fans have started to speculate, the Cas who is dead is alt!Cas for whatever reason - OR real Cas is dead, and Misha will play alt!Cas from now on. Or some variation on a theme of any of those. We'll know soon enough. The only nice thing about Castiel's temporary "death" is that Dean was allowed to be genuinely grief-stricken, FWIW.** ** I will add here that I do think there is possibly some decent potential with exploring the alt universe, especially as the storytelling on the mothership side is so creatively bankrupt. And what the hell, they may as well steal from all the CW superhero shows. But the same problem remains on this show - poor showrunning and writing that they can't overcome. And WTF was up with Dabb killing Rowena off screen? Seriously?!? That maneuver screamed bad blood behind the scenes. You don't do that to a character/actor who has been around for a few years, not even give her a single on screen scene to die in, if it's not personal. Poor Ruth. She did not deserve that, and from what I read on twitter, she doesn't seem happy about it.** **Maybe there's a chance we'll get an alt!Rowena from the other 'verse. That would be just about the only non-crappy reason for Dabb to do what he did. Lucky Mark Sheppard, though. I will not believe that Mark himself isn't at least partly responsible for killing off Crowley. There's no way he could have been happy the last couple of years with the writing for his character, and he's too good a character actor to keep wasting his time and talent on this crapfest of a show. When I saw the tear thing referred to online as the glowing vagina, I howled! And now I cannot see it any other way. LOL! That's about the only chuckle I can get out of the episode. Everything about Dabb's episode was hella stupid. I'm not sure I can even be mad about it - it's too stupid to get angry at. The only thing I'm angry about is Dabb shitting on Ruth. But there's no question in my mind anymore that Dabb has lost whatever tiny modicum of talent he may have had at one time. He really needs to give up on the writing thing and get a real day job. Unfortunately it sounds like Singer, Dabb, and the entire talentless crop of writers are all going to be back next year. Nothing will change.
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Post by anouck9 on May 20, 2017 18:07:24 GMT -5
OR real Cas is dead, and Misha will play alt!Cas from now on. And WTF was up with Dabb killing Rowena off screen? Seriously?!? That maneuver screamed bad blood behind the scenes. You don't do that to a character/actor who has been around for a few years, not even give her a single on screen scene to die in, if it's not personal. Poor Ruth. She did not deserve that, and from what I read on twitter, she doesn't seem happy about it.** For Cas, that's actually my worst case scenario. But I'm sure Dabb would love it, because Alt!Cas would mean a total reset of relationships, he can make him AllAboutSam and have yet something else he can take away from Dean's character. I fully expect them to bring back Cas in one way or another, but honestly this was a shitty death (even if at least it was on screen) and gave Dean a nice scene. That makes for 20 enjoyable seconds in a dreadful episode. I'm really mad about Rowena and Ruth. That's a dick move. But then, pretty on par with everything we saw this year. I'm not really excited about Alt!anything to be honest. Unless TPTB give Dabb adult supervision, I don't expect S13 to be any better and Jensen is not enough anymore to keep me on board. PrettyWallPaperDean as a storyline doesn't do a thing for me, SammyKin TheWonderTrickPony is really getting on my last nerves, and Cas character has been such a mess that I wasn't even saddened by his death. Maybe the summer will calm things down, but right now I'm kissing S13 goodbye.
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Post by idahoforspn on May 20, 2017 23:42:56 GMT -5
It's fun to see rants that aren't met with responses by folks who are reading them and getting upset. Only place I know you dont have to constantly defend an opinion!!
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Post by paforrest on May 21, 2017 8:24:51 GMT -5
OR real Cas is dead, and Misha will play alt!Cas from now on. For Cas, that's actually my worst case scenario. But I'm sure Dabb would love it, because Alt!Cas would mean a total reset of relationships, he can make him AllAboutSam and have yet something else he can take away from Dean's character. ...... I'm not really excited about Alt!anything to be honest. Unless TPTB give Dabb adult supervision, I don't expect S13 to be any better and Jensen is not enough anymore to keep me on board. PrettyWallPaperDean as a storyline doesn't do a thing for me, SammyKin TheWonderTrickPony is really getting on my last nerves, and Cas character has been such a mess that I wasn't even saddened by his death. Maybe the summer will calm things down, but right now I'm kissing S13 goodbye. Well, yeah, I admit there's a damn good chance that Dabb wants to go with an alt!Cas so he can eliminate yet another thing that was Dean's - his relationship with Cas. And as season 12 proved, every time Dabb and his talentless crew of hacks take something from Dean, it's so they can give it to Sam. And if that happens with Cas, there's no question the character instantly becomes odious to me. So, no, I honestly don't expect season 13 to be any good, not with Singer and Dabb still running the show and the CW not caring about making any changes. The only episode that actually might be good is the Scooby Doo crossover, ironically - and the reason for that is because it's being written by a couple of animation writers and not by anyone on the SPN staff. Yeah, it is getting increasingly harder to stick around for Jensen/Dean, as I have been doing for years, because his character is being systematically destroyed by Dabb et. al. I do think Jensen still tries with whatever horrible material he's given - if he's given anything, which honestly isn't hardly anything anymore. But he can only do so much, and I also think he's past trying to fight for Dean the way he used to.
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Post by idahoforspn on May 21, 2017 8:38:46 GMT -5
Do we know for sure that the higher ups aren't saying anything before the new season?
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