|
Post by Mystique on Feb 16, 2017 21:08:24 GMT -5
So, what would you rate this episode?
|
|
|
Post by thesnowleopard on Feb 16, 2017 21:45:38 GMT -5
It was a bad episode. Some of the ideas were good, but the writing was laughably poor. The jumping around was incoherent rather than edgy. The LoL are as underwhelming as ever. The new YED guy was poorly cast. And the infodump about how there are actually other YEDs and yadda-yadda-yadda was unimpressive.
|
|
loops
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by loops on Feb 17, 2017 0:05:51 GMT -5
This episode left me speechless for a bit. And not in a good way.
Cherry picking from old myth-arcs that have already been laid to rest. Are we seriously going to resurrect YED/Colt storylines? All the things that made them so great the first time around are going to be trashed in the hands of the current writers hacks.
The nod to Reservoir Dogs... I thought there'd be more menace since the title of the episode reflects Mr Blonde's iconic dance/torture scene. But instead we get Ramiel. Who doesn't care, guys. I thought the execution of the format was sloppy and the Western soundtrack was cheesy and not at all subtle.
Every new appearance by Mary, Mother of the Year, has me liking her less and less. She makes me ranty so I'm leaving it at that.
Pellegrino was the saving grace for me. If Lucifer is going to make a reappearance, it has to be in Nick's vessel, if only to erase the mess that was Rick Springfield from my memory.
|
|
|
Post by Mystique on Feb 17, 2017 1:57:02 GMT -5
I agree with y'all. This was a hot mess.
I'll give it 1/10
Positive:
- The only one is for the moments between Cas, Dean and Sam and parts of the the sneak peek scene.
Negatives:
-All the rest of the episode. And as I posted in the discussion thread:
Wow! That was bad! Davy Perez needs to be let go. I very much disliked his first episode and hoped he would have done better, but just no, this was atrocious. I had said after his first episode that he seemed to be taking a page from the Nep Duo's book, but he's worse.
In his 1st ep, even though the story was crap, he made sure to parallel the story to Sam's history, brought up Sam's history and for good measure completely got rid of Dean for over half the episode.
This one, even though Dean was included in it, he completely ignored Dean's connection to Michael, who's only importance in this episode was his weapon, and for good measure had Sam be the one to use Michael's weapon and threw in frigging Luci on top of that who's connection to Sam is frequently brought up.
This dude clearly has an extreme bias that is more apparent than the holdover writers. Damn, no wonder why there were so many promos, they were really trying to sell this crap. SMH
And I couldn't give a rats ass about Mark Pellegrino being back as Luci. I am long since fed up with the character, no matter who the hell plays him.
|
|
|
Post by onali on Feb 17, 2017 2:13:14 GMT -5
I can't grade it.
Half the time it was WTF! and the other half I was pulling my hair out.
- Why not give Dean the lance/ killing? Not even gonna explain this one.
- I love you??? Yeah not gonna exlain this one either.
- Another YED? Whilst Azazel was scary this one wasn't.
- Before/ after Lilith etc. How many times are they gonna retcon every-freaking-thing.
- Seeing the MoC and the blade I thought there was gonna be a reference to Dean and Cain, Knights of Hell, but alas.
- Poor sucker hunter, you weren't gonna make it.
- The writer made Dean disappear AGAIN!! Deadhunter and Sam were fighting demons. Worst mama ever was dragging Cas away. Dean? Dean?! Dean!!! Oh yeah he stabbed a demon.
- I don't know Pulp Fiction that well, but my first thought was, another episode with jumping back and forward scenes? Just like Red Meat.
- The black goo out of Cas, looked like the demonsoul Rowena got out of a demon a long long time ago in Girls Girls Girls, season 10
Likes: Jensen starring as Dean Mark P
|
|
|
Post by paforrest on Feb 17, 2017 6:52:22 GMT -5
0/10, because I dvr'd it, watched other stuff, read the tweets, said hells to the no. Deleted it without watching, and anytime the description of and conversation about an episode makes me angry enough to delete without watching, it deserves and gets a big fat goose egg.
Perez is 2 for 2 in his having no use for Dean Winchester, and any writer who has no use for Dean Winchester is of no use to me. Speight is also 2 for 2 in making it crystal clear he continues to harbor butt hurt over Jensen getting press for singing with the band, however long ago that was. Two petty little men who clearly deserve each other.
Sam is always going to be my least favorite character anytime and every single freaking time he is hand-delivered yet another thing that was supposed to be Dean's. Way to keep him at the bottom of my list. Not that I care so much, but it just gives me ever more justification for being annoyed by the character.
Though he's one notch up from Mary. Seriously, I really don't need anymore reason to despise Mary Sue Winchester, Dabb et. al. have done enough damage up to now. But I was delighted to read that she's even more horrible than she's already presented to date.
It really does sound like last week's final montage to Dean Winchester was a goodbye of sorts, for all intents and purposes. I honestly don't remember reading of anything coming the rest of the season that sounds like Dean is involved beyond the having to use his name in the episode description because the contract stipulates as much.
|
|
|
Post by onali on Feb 17, 2017 7:53:09 GMT -5
Speight is also 2 for 2 in making it crystal clear he continues to harbor butt hurt over Jensen getting press for singing with the band, however long ago that was. I read one of Richard's tweet and I didn't liked it. I know that young John Winchester hosted Michael for less than 5 minutes. But I think everyone assumes Matt Cohen is not only young John but also Michael. And seeing it that way, Jensen will never get to play that part, or even get acknowledgement as Dean for being his true vessel.
|
|
|
Post by anouck9 on Feb 17, 2017 10:09:02 GMT -5
Hum... 0.5/10 ?
Well I'll start by saying that Dabb proved his uncanny acumen by giving a type of episode potentially risky even for a seasoned writer, to the new writer Perez because, I guess, his last one was such a masterpiece? (/sarcasm) They both need to pack, seriously.
Hated the "oh there's several YED, and they're Prince of Hell", the "Oh Crowley became King of Hell by default, he never really wanted it", the Lucifer storyline that won't die, the demon gloating about killing Sam Winchester (I'm guessing she said it in all CAPS in her head) because killing Dean, well, that wouldn't matter I guess?, the Michael lance/spear that doesn't have anything to do with bringing back Michael, and nary a mention about Dean (Dean who?) Mary makes less and less sense every time. I'm really slipping from the fence on that one. She's been clinging to John's diary since the beginning of the season, so she should know what the Colt does. And yet she doesn't try to use it? And she still gives it to the LOL? And will keep working with them? And doesn't come clean? Alrighty then... Crowley doesn't seem to be over Dean, does he? Me thinks he's gonna find himself in the crosshair soon (next LOL target?) and think it's a collective Winchester betrayal... Yes cliche and trite but then... So is Lucifer, Lucifer Baby, the LOL... so why not? And finally, if you want emotion and family feels, write a strong story/strong scenes. Don't put grandious speeches and declaration of love to bang us over the head. I felt a lot more moved by Dean taking off his hand off the banishing sigil because he was unwilling to risk Cas aven to save himself, than with all these family love declarations.
And finally, this YED wasn't Azazel. So why did he recognize Mary? Am I supposed to believe she's already a legend? Or was she actually in Hell like Daddy and not in Heaven?
I think from now on, I'll give Perez episodes a pass.
ETA: Also hated : "WE took out the Darkness", "an act of Chuck to take the Darkness" and Cas reply to Dean about having had worse. Chuck forbid that we speak of what Dean went through, ever... And yes, it wasn't the time (it never is...) but why put that in at all? Seriously, I never thought that one day the Nepotic Duo would actually shine in comparaison to another writer...
|
|
|
Post by katefkndoes on Feb 17, 2017 14:31:38 GMT -5
Not as bad as I was anticipating given the things I'd seen before I watched it.
But compared to last week it was awful. That said, I still enjoyed it more than the majority of season 12 so far so... yeah.
I enjoyed the Cas stuff; hated the Mary stuff; felt cheated by any mention of Michael; got annoyed with Ramiel and am completely unimpressed by the British Men of Letter.
I didn't enjoy the format either because it felt like it was trying to be something it wasn't. That format works well in certain films but in my opinion 40 minutes isn't long enough to do it anywhere near justice.
|
|
|
Post by katefkndoes on Feb 17, 2017 14:34:04 GMT -5
Oh and if they do some sort of shitty age-jump thing with Luciferms baby where it's born and then all of a sudden it's Mark Pellegrino and we have to believe Lucifer is inhabiting his own son I will hit the roof!
|
|
|
Post by thesnowleopard on Feb 17, 2017 15:31:18 GMT -5
Oh and if they do some sort of shitty age-jump thing with Luciferms baby where it's born and then all of a sudden it's Mark Pellegrino and we have to believe Lucifer is inhabiting his own son I will hit the roof! Oh, hon, you just know that's gonna happen. After all, they can't kill him (or her, but it'll probably be a him) off until they've aged him up.
|
|
|
Post by katefkndoes on Feb 17, 2017 16:38:20 GMT -5
Oh and if they do some sort of shitty age-jump thing with Luciferms baby where it's born and then all of a sudden it's Mark Pellegrino and we have to believe Lucifer is inhabiting his own son I will hit the roof! Oh, hon, you just know that's gonna happen. After all, they can't kill him (or her, but it'll probably be a him) off until they've aged him up. I know!! Which is why I just know it's going to happen and I'm going to be annoyed. And then knowing this show there will suddenly be a fourth Winchester brother to be michael's vessel! 🙄*rolls eyes*
|
|
loops
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by loops on Feb 17, 2017 21:47:31 GMT -5
And finally, if you want emotion and family feels, write a strong story/strong scenes. Don't put grandious speeches and declaration of love to bang us over the head. I felt a lot more moved by Dean taking off his hand off the banishing sigil because he was unwilling to risk Cas aven to save himself, than with all these family love declarations. Ack. This. These declarations don't ring true at all. Including Mary in the sweeping 'you're family, I love you all,' monologues is irritating too. She's done nothing to deserve anyone's love imo. Abandoning the boys, working with the BMoL, keeping secrets and refusing to give up or USE the colt to save anyone including Cas, her son's BFF, even when she could see that he was dying and it was killing Dean. This is how she treats 'her boys,' which apparently according to her speech to Ketch includes Cas now. All tell, no show is a writing 101 fail.
|
|
|
Post by thesnowleopard on Feb 17, 2017 22:00:04 GMT -5
The thing is that Tell is cheap, while Show is a commitment to the story. Dean dropping his hand, despite being furious with Castiel, despite it being his best chance by far of surviving Ishim's attack, let alone winning the fight, in front of Castiel, is significant. It changes that relationship.
Castiel making some weird deathbed speech need be no more permanent than his being mortally wounded was. And it's on-the-nose dialogue, which is flat and lacks subtext, and insults the audience.
There's a part of the audience (often the same part that reads all sorts of odd shippy things into the story that really aren't there) that doesn't believe something is going on unless it's spelled out and underlined in dialogue. Even then, they see it as subject to interpretation. I realized a while back that this part of the audience doesn't respond to anything *but* these overt declarations of feeling, however empty and not followed up they might be in later story.
|
|