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Post by thesnowleopard on Apr 28, 2017 20:08:19 GMT -5
Just what it says--your thoughts on how you think the show can recover its mojo, improve, or even just become even better (no crap about how it needs to be canceled; this thread is not for that).
I'll start. I want to see follow-up to Dean's role as the Firewall and more exploration of the SPNverse. I also want to see more fallout from the MoC. That was a great storyline and got the fandom really engaged.
I want to see Smart!Dean killing things again--iconic things iconically.
I want a different way of having the Brothers play off each other than to build up Sam artificially at Dean's expense or make him look like a complete butthead.
I want the action scenes to improve. They used to be great. Now, they're written too linearly.
I want more coherent writing.
I'm really tired of characters being written dumb. Not just Dean, but Sam, Castiel, Crowley, Mary...everyone.
I think the LoL are a lost cause at this point and just need to go. But the Brothers should inherit some "stuff" from them.
I think the Nephilim storyline should be ditched and Lucifer written out.
Bring Michael back.
Keep Mary, but write better for her, starting with her actually being a mother to her sons.
Keep Rowena. Maybe explore the European Coven through her.
I really don't want to see any more sympathetic female characters fridged to make the Brothers look bad. It's become predictable to kill off someone "important" at the halfway point or in the final stretch of a season. Enough. Find another way to create suspense.
Get rid of Dabb. Probably Singer, too. Definitely the Nep Duo and Perez.
Bring back Carver.
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Post by saltgunempty on Apr 28, 2017 23:54:12 GMT -5
Hmmmmm. Don't be shallow, don't be shallow, don't be shallow.
Gut the writer's room, fire Dabb and fire Singer. That entire area needs to be rebuilt with a clear idea and supervision. try to find professionals who will actually try, otherwise don't reward incompetence.
a new showrunner (Carver, whoever) needs to have a clear image and enforce that. Someone needs to have a talk with said showrunner about Dean, killing the lazy writing, managing storylines, etc. Simple "this will be done" practicality stuff.
create a show bible for the new writers and make the new writers have decent familiarity with the show.
don't try to make a commentary on things, don't touch class differences because that always looks bad on this show, don't do foreign arcs
simplify the show again and expand the hunting world. I'm still bitter about Henriksen and Rufus and Ellen and even Jo by the end. The arcs and villains have kept getting bigger and I think a reset in that could serve the show well.
new conflicts between characters need to be found and so do new driving forces through the characters.
the action needs to be improved but so do the MOTW, those used to be a fun part of the show.
i'd be down for a season that revolves around a mystery
They need to sprint away from this season.
There needs to be a clear and concise plan with the Angels and demons because it's lacked direction and subsequently floundered over the years. End it, re-invent it, idgaf, just have a plan that isn't meandering along offscreen or being stupid dicks.
on the acting front... J2 needs to be there more. They haven't been able to transition to them having a lighter workload so it's either that gets increased or the workload disappears faster than it would have. Crowley and Rowena are small dose characters.
Dean is a main character and the best thing they've had going for them. This needs to be learned. Exploit the asset ffs.
Don't kill off good off promising characters. Kill off awful characters asap. Same for storylines.
new characters should not be lazy cliches or upstage the stars
The whole "how do we make Sam more likeable? Give him the cool stuff that's worked before" thing needs to die. It's tedious and undermines the show. How they approach both main characters needs to be reassessed.
this show has had its struggles with women... stop it.
to apply some hockey fun because it's the playoffs. Sometimes people are complacent so they coast or they're just not very good, but the real problem arises when they're favoured by someone above them. Someone above that person needs to take the toy away or draw a line, if no one does you've got a massive problem that will spread and create a crappy environment. Supernatural can't have that continue.
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Post by anouck9 on Apr 29, 2017 2:27:56 GMT -5
Fire Dabb, Singer, Perez, and few others writers, in which i unclude Berens if he's going to give us Red Meat after Red Meat End that Lucifer and baby nonsense Bring back Dean Stop the Sam shilling done at the expense of Dean, and stop the neverending dismissal of Dean's feelings, lies, betrayals, etc. In short, have him have a EQ upgrade. Cas needs to shape up or ship out. I use to like the guy but the woe-is-me, I'm doing for you while betraying you all the way got old 2 seasons ago. If every year is gonna be another "boohoo I'm feeling useless, I don't know if I belong, boohoo", then the character has no point anymore. I'm not sure Mary can be saved at that point, because the show usual MO is "give X epic suffering so and X will be redeemed, no matter if X actully makes amends or apologize" (unless it's Dean of course) KIll the LOL, the idea of LOL, the memory of any LOL storyline ever happening on this show Bring back Dean (yeah, I know, I already said it but it bears saying it again)
However, honestly, if the problem besides the writing is giving the J more time off, then I don't think the show can or will be saved, because right now the show is becoming the spin-off and it's clearly not working.
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Post by aduty1 on Apr 29, 2017 5:37:16 GMT -5
Fix Dean. Make him the street smart monster killing leader he use to be. Give him hero moments and don't ever go more then a couple episodes without one.
Fix the colt and let Dean use it. After that, if it's to powerful have it lost or stolen but leave it out there.
If you have good characters that fans love, don't kill them. Bring in fan favorites to offset J2's down time. Bring in Jody and Donna more. Bring back Eileen. Let Yockey create some new characters, that's his strength. If he creates the next Mick, Ellen, Benny, Rufus, Hendrickson...etc keep them around.
Take the grenade launcher to the BoL, Mary and the Nephelim and never bring them up again. Put Lucien back in the cage and leave him there. Reset season 12 and ,again, never bring it up...ever.
Make Sam and Dean relevant again. Make the story about them and have them solve the problems themselves. If you have to split them up sometimes to give J2 time off, do it. It keeps them on screen longer and you can use it to develop side characters more. Just start and end the episodes together and keep them communicating through out the episode.
Fire Dabb,Singer, the Duo, Perez, Berens and Bright. Bring back Carver (or someone that realizes how important Dean is). Keep Yockey and give Glynn a chance to come back to the light side.
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Post by nitar on Apr 29, 2017 6:07:13 GMT -5
Bring back Dean into the story and write for him properly. Not as a bumbling buffoon tripping over his own feet.
Fire Singer, Dabb & Perez. Or put Dabb back on his leash - not as a showrunner. Get a good showrunner who really cares about the show and has no favourites but can come up with a story for all the characters - not just one per season. (Carver worked fine for me)
Get some talented writers who know how to do their homework first and not just start writing without a clue who you are writing about. And make sure that the writers WATCH all the old episodes before they are given an episode to write. Basically make sure the showrunner does his job!
And keep the stories simple. If you can't come up with a decent Mytharc - just write ordinary stuff - MOTW is fine. Bring in more hunters to give J2 some time off but please keep at least for me - Dean in the focus.
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Post by onali on Apr 29, 2017 11:08:48 GMT -5
Dean and Cass need to be back again. No more self loathing for Cass, no more feeling like a failure. He has heard more than once how much he means to the brothers, why is he still betraying them because he feels so lost. That storyline is old. Dean doesn't dissapear each episode, he is the kickass hero hunter we all love and miss. Follow up on killing Death, aftermath MoC, Amara/ Chuck, maybe even Michael and definitely demonDean. No more matching up between the brothers. Dean's gone to hell, so does Sam. Dean goes to purgatory, so does Sam. Dean has the MoC, Sam ...... Dean kills a YED, Sam gets a turn. But when Sam kills a Hellhound for the second time, Dean is taking a stroll? Nor more torturing Sam or Cass. Yes they can be hurt every once in a while to keep things real. But no more torturescenes. Kill Lucifer, send him to the cage, whatever is necessary to keep him away forever, because I am so over him. Rewind time and the baby never happened. Rewind time on the LoL, because it could have worked. But not how they were introduced and with whatever their plan is. But collaborate with US hunters. Don't make them in what they are now, because this is ridicculous. Kick up new monsters, dial down on the vamps and werewolves. Stop FF-ing up canon, tweak it, but don't break it or act like it doesn't exist. More Jody, Donna, Eileen, witchtwins. Fire Dabb, Singer and co, Perez and perhaps Berens. And never let them in again. Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary. Whatever the plan, never this again. I want the finale to with Amara/ Chuck and Dean. They just let him all see this and say you can stop this. He does and everything goes back to normal and season 12 never actually happened
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Post by Mystique on Apr 29, 2017 12:12:18 GMT -5
My issue with what has become of the show, especially in the past two seasons, is the overall poor storytelling in regards to the writing for the entire cast, aside from Sam. For me, I watch for the whole show, not just the brothers, Cas, Crowley, Mary or Rowena. Though, Dean is my favorite, I want good storytelling and respect for all the characters and the fans.
For those of us who have adapted along with the expansion and growth of the SPNverse since the beginning, these past two seasons have been suffocating in that they have re-narrowed down the focus to just the brothers, and now just to Sam. It feels like I'm travelling through a tunnel with horse blinders on to boot. Yes, Dean and Sam are the heart of the show, but the heart cannot live outside the body, in this case, the body of work for the entire show which is lacking. That may be fine for the bros-only fans, but for the rest of us like me, not so much.
As others have said and I concur, definitely ditch Dead Horse Luci and the BMoL. I agree that firing Dabb and Singer is probably a good idea since they cannot seem to understand they are responsible for all of their characters, not only just the one(s) they want to write for. Only focusing on your favorites is not good leadership, realizing you have a team and a responsibility to deliver to your customers, in this case viewers, is. I think getting rid of the Nep-Duo and Perez is also a good idea, as they have shown the inability to write well. My suggestion beyond that, is to separate the brothers more (they do not need to be joined at the hip through the entirety of every episode), use the regulars (Cas and Crowley) and recurring characters (Mary, Rowena, Jody, Donna, etc) more and involve them more organically into the story with the lead characters, to adapt to the shrinking screen-time of Jensen and Jared.
Other shows have been able to manage this, so it really should not be a foreign concept for people who supposedly have experience, and are being paid to do a job.
JMHO
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paro
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by paro on Apr 29, 2017 12:59:18 GMT -5
My wish list:
1. Return Dean to his old self. Enough Valium!Sidekick!Dean. This is actually my biggest sticking point. I could've made peace with the rest of this trainwreck of a season if we'd gotten enough badass hunter/leader Dean.
2. Balance out the hunting skill between the brothers. If Sam does most of the research for a case, let Dean come up with the plan. If Sam gets a kill and saves the day in one episode, Dean should get to do the same in the next.
3. Stop Sue-ing up Sam. That's always been a problem for showrunners but this season has really been OTT. 4. Bring back emotional resonance to the show (ie, have storylines that directly involves the brothers; bring back a strong single character POV; allow both brothers to bond with guest stars.) This season has just felt....flat.
5. Stop making Cas into a woobie idjit and put him firmly on the side of the Winchesters.
6. Either have Mary develop some sort of maternal warmth towards her sons or let her go back to Heaven. I don't care that she's Super Huntress Alpha Mary. Eileen can be that. Mary has a special designation on the show as the boys' mother. If Dabb's that much against Mary even making the brothers an occasional sandwich and giving them a warm hug, then, as far as I'm concerned, there's really no point to her being on the show.
6. Stop with the paint by numbers scripts and put some layers into the writing
7. Stop killing off interesting characters.
7. Have all new writers watch the entire series and really look at what worked/didn't work in the past. There's a reason why SPN's been on for 12 years. Taking away everything that defined the show doesn't make it more interesting; it just turns it into another generic show.
8. Have all the new writers watch the entire series so they know past canon and really understand the characters.
(Cherry on top - bring back Michael and allow Dean-Michael to gank Lucifer once and for all. That's been my wish since "The End", when Dean swore he'd kill Lucifer.)
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Post by paforrest on Apr 30, 2017 8:02:13 GMT -5
My wish list: 1. Return Dean to his old self. Enough Valium!Sidekick!Dean. This is actually my biggest sticking point. I could've made peace with the rest of this trainwreck of a season if we'd gotten enough badass hunter/leader Dean. 2. Balance out the hunting skill between the brothers. If Sam does most of the research for a case, let Dean come up with the plan. If Sam gets a kill and saves the day in one episode, Dean should get to do the same in the next. 3. Stop Sue-ing up Sam. That's always been a problem for showrunners but this season has really been OTT. 4. Bring back emotional resonance to the show (ie, have storylines that directly involves the brothers; bring back a strong single character POV; allow both brothers to bond with guest stars.) This season has just felt....flat. 5. Stop making Cas into a woobie idjit and put him firmly on the side of the Winchesters. 6. Either have Mary develop some sort of maternal warmth towards her sons or let her go back to Heaven. I don't care that she's Super Huntress Alpha Mary. Eileen can be that. Mary has a special designation on the show as the boys' mother. If Dabb's that much against Mary even making the brothers an occasional sandwich and giving them a warm hug, then, as far as I'm concerned, there's really no point to her being on the show... Quoting most of paro's post because she's saying it all for me. I just cut it down a little so the quote wouldn't be so long. But I agree with every point, especially #1 and #6. My overwhelming demand is for Dean Winchester to return to the show. Period. Not this cardboard cut-out that has been masquerading as Dean Winchester, when it's on screen at all. Without a fully-realized Dean Winchester, I can't love the show, the story, or any of the other characters. I don't give a damn about Dabb's personal preferences or beefs or whatever his high-school'ish problem is with Dean or Jensen. He needs to grow up and get over it - he has a job to do and two lead characters and actors, and pretending otherwise doesn't make it so. Hey, don't like Jensen, don't like Dean - then fire Jensen. Please. It's happened on other shows before. But nobody will fire Jensen to get him out of the way. Why, because they can't? Because the CW and WB know that there's no show or audience at all without him? Well, they're getting proof of that now as the audience is starting to walk away. The writing staff is spending more time trying to downplay or virtually eliminate Dean from the scripts than they are just trying to write a good story - and, again, it shows, badly. Dabb would rather all the regular characters get out of the way so he can create a spin-off while not having to do the work of actually coming up with an original project and selling it to a network. Boo-hoo, lazy baby. Can't do the job because you're not interested in the characters in this 'verse? Then walk away! So, yes, I think the show needs a showrunner who likes the characters - all of them, including Dean - and wants to portray them as best as he/she can, and knows they need to be the most integral parts of any storyline in this 'verse for that storyline to sell to the audience.
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Post by nitar on May 4, 2017 19:49:04 GMT -5
Changing my answer - At this point I really don't know if it is possible for me to love the show again. Too late I think.
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