Post by thesnowleopard on Feb 15, 2017 1:51:14 GMT -5
I really like Mary and think she has potential as a new Bobby character without the issues that caused Bobby (and John) to be killed off. Unfortunately, the writers seem to be struggling to figure out what to do with her when it's really not that hard. She's going through the same character arc problems that Castiel goes through, where he pops up every few episodes and then disappears for several more, and it's just not necessary.
As Castiel said, the SPNverse needs all the Winchester it can get. The writers just can't seem to figure out the obvious next step. They *always* do this. They've struggled with every side character. Hell, they're even struggling with Dean this season and Dean's their best character. It's not only Mary.
I've been on the fence for a while now. I want to keep liking her, but damn the writers don't make that easy. First of all, who is she? The woman who spent most of her time telling how she wanted to get away from hunting? Or the one who kept hunting even after Dean's birth? (which by the way, does he even know?) A shell-shocked mother still in mourning of her "babies" who can't seem to get her bearings, or someone who sees an opportunity to leave behind the "family life" that didn't turn up to be all that great? I have 0 problems with her not living in the bunker, but the lack of any meaningful interactions is making it hard to care about what and how she's doing. Offering to die in First Blood doesn't mean much from someone obviously not so much interested in living in the first place. (and actually, same goes for Castiel and his speech that seemed pasted on, like someone said "oh we need emotional scenes!")
I have with Mary the same problem I have with almost everyone this season, I don't feel anything, like the characters are just there, without real connection and/or emotion. The focus on the relationships between the characters seems inexistant and it's even more glaring to me since I don't care one bit about the storylines about LOL, Lucifer v22 and EVOL Baby...
So I'm gonna wait, but I'm hoping for some changes. (and I hoped that it wouldn't involve the LOL but...)
Right now I'm in the 'bad' camp waiting to be proven wrong. Mary is wasted so far, which is a shame because I think there's a lot of potential to be had with her character. The writers need to commit to something instead of all this fannying around between traits. She's just so wishy-washy and disposable. She doesn't have the feisty Mama Winchester attitude I expected when she first appeared. I was completely fine with her feeling a bit lost and struggling to find her footing at first, but leaving the boys and then offering herself up as a sacrifice with no real connection or development in between?
Well, if you're still adding, my vote is BAD! And this is coming from someone who initially held out hope for good things with Mary's return, particularly where Dean is concerned. Boy was I wronger than wrong!
It seems obvious to me that Dabb and Smith discussed the character's return, and either or both decided that her being the brothers' mom was a bad thing, something they didn't want to play up. So instead they go the cold, distant, never wanted to be a mother, bitchy route. Then they further compound it by trying to make her a Sue-huntress extraordinaire as yet another in an increasing line of characters used to show up the brothers whom Dabb has little to no interest in. So, sure, go ignoring Dean or making him look like a fool, and that's just the way to force a character into my heart. NOT!
Frankly I've come to the conclusion that all Dabb has been doing this season is writing a Mary Sue Winchester spin-off, even if it's only for himself and nothing the network is interested in.
Bottom line, I really can't stand the character. On the upside, John no longer looks like the worst parent ever.
This is just my opinion, but I still think her return was a good idea, especially for Dean. Though, I am one who is interested in seeing how her story plays out for her, and for the dynamic between her and all three in TFW, I also have hopes it has a positive effect on Dean.
Dean "I'm 90% crap" Winchester was raised taking orders and taking care of Sam with not much care and love shown him. He had in his mind the perfect mother image, the one that took care of him, called him her little angel and offered him pie, which he held onto. He was told by Chuck himself he was important, and has shown some growth in his self worth this season, but I do not think he feels vastly different in that area.
Now this same woman, his perfect sainted mother, was returned to him and she *gasp* happens to be a fallible human being as well, like everyone else on the face of the planet. Is she only the perfect sainted mother he remembered her as? No. Has she made mistakes? Yes. Does that hurt him? Absolutely. And I do not like to see him hurt. But I do think it's good for him to reconcile himself to the fact that she is all of those things, and that who he is seeing now of the person she is overall doesn't negate that part of her that he remembered.
I don't think her return was written in to accomplish anything other than a "Wow! Mary's back!" response, now "lets throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks". However, I hope that at least one of the aftereffects of her return results in Dean, not learning a lesson, but getting the message that his percieved imperfections do not make him unworthy. I'm sure Dean will always feel less than totally worthy, but if he can move that "crap" percentage down further, I call that a win.
That's just my thoughts on this story, at least, so far.
Last Edit: May 27, 2017 12:09:40 GMT -5 by Mystique
Team Free Will. One ex-blood junkie, one dropout with six bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there. ~Dean
Post by frozen_delight on Mar 1, 2017 14:34:53 GMT -5
I never liked Mary, so originally I was less than thrilled to see her come back. And then both Dabb's writing for the character and Sam Smith completely wowed me in "Keep Calm and Carry On". The storyline seemed to have so much promise, and they seemed so intent on taking all the implications of her return seriously...Unfortunately, ever since "The Foundry" I no longer see any of that. It's disappointing and frustrating. The writers seem to have no idea what to do with Mary, none of her development is explored on screen, and the way she randomly appears off our screens for two or three eps in a row certainly doesn't help either.
thesnowleopard: The season finale was better than last season's finale. Hell, the whole season was better than last season. Some episodes were worth watching. Others were kinda messy.
Jun 12, 2018 22:47:11 GMT -5
onali: Since I haven't been watching the show I don't know how some (former) dead characters have returned (in what form) but I have to say that I don't miss the show at all. Is it still worth watching or not?
May 7, 2018 19:43:37 GMT -5
onali: It's been a long time since I've been here. Only watched the Season premiere then .... nothing. Every now and again I watched what you were rating the episodes and yes I've seen some spoilers (can some people just please stay dead??!!!!!) (1)
May 7, 2018 19:42:01 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: I'm not, and I think I'm gonna stop working SPN conventions. BTW, welcome!
Feb 19, 2018 0:55:03 GMT -5
gopacgo12: Ok, so is anyone here going to the Las Vegas 2018 Supernatural convention, because if so I will see you there, but i'd just like to talk to some others
Feb 18, 2018 23:55:22 GMT -5
thesnowleopard: I have to wait until tomorrow night to "live recap." I don't currently have live TV, just streaming.
Oct 12, 2017 20:17:07 GMT -5
paforrest: Excited is not what I'm feeling. But I've set the dvr, will live watch Gotham & Will & Grace, then The Good Place off the dvr. Maybe tomorrow I'll FF through SPN if, and only IF, I hear there's any good Dean.
Oct 12, 2017 14:18:09 GMT -5
onali: So ... who is excited for tomorrow? I still have to re-watch the last couple of episodes, but I am lacking the enthousiasm.
Oct 11, 2017 21:45:06 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: Just FYI guys, Luxshine is going to be in Florida come mid October. She and I are going to be vending as artists at Spooky Empire. So much hugs and puppies to her when she's here.
Sept 25, 2017 18:55:18 GMT -5
luxshine: Thank guys. There was ANOTHER earthquake here today, but this time I didn´t even feel it. Just dealing with a bit of PTSD. So if you can send fluffy things and cute Jensen or Misha pics my way, I´ll appreciate it.
Sept 23, 2017 16:37:18 GMT -5
onali: Glad you all are ok over there.
Sept 22, 2017 19:31:28 GMT -5
paforrest: So glad you're okay, luxshine! Absolutely heartbreaking situation. And I'm terrified and devastated for Puerto Rico and the other islands impacted by Maria. Mother Earth is very pissed off at us.
Sept 20, 2017 7:25:07 GMT -5
luxshine: New Earthquake here in Mexico. Now... a bit more savage than last week's. But I'm ok!
Sept 19, 2017 20:37:51 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: And now we may have Maria...
Sept 19, 2017 13:10:20 GMT -5
luxshine: I'm glad people from Florida are ok! We had a bit of an earthquake in Mexico, but other than three terrified kitties, I'm ok.
Sept 18, 2017 19:14:05 GMT -5
paforrest: Belatedly checking in from Florida. My roof held and no trees fell on the house, miraculously enough. Spent two days cleaning up debris in the yard, but we fared better than most, for which I'm grateful. But I feel for so many that are suffering.
Sept 13, 2017 5:27:25 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: Checking in from FL, I survived Irma with power and no damage to my apartment.
Sept 11, 2017 16:11:29 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: As for Creation, this is why I work them.
May 27, 2017 17:00:08 GMT -5
SkeksisGirl: Oh, the new owners for Megacon are just turning it into a meat grinder. They've screwed over a lot of people.
May 27, 2017 16:59:57 GMT -5
paforrest: Yeah, I've been to a few Megacons in the past - they can be a cluster. But I was talking about how years ago I'd have been thrilled if a Creation SPN con finally came here. Now it is and I don't care and can't justify the money. Changing times.
May 27, 2017 5:34:48 GMT -5