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Post by nitar on Mar 3, 2017 0:39:36 GMT -5
Sooooo, Dean vanished from the climax again? Yep. That, too. Though he and Mary seem to be a lot closer now. Except that Sam just picked up the Idjit Ball that Mary dropped. He and Mary seem to be closer? Not from where I was watching. Dean was forced into that - apologise yet again and made to take back everything that he said in the beginning to Mary which was well-deserved. Shades of earlier seasons - Kripke, Gamble, Dabb, Singer! At this point I am going with the "Dean is adopted" or "was switched at birth" thought. The rest of them John, Mary & Sam all of them are dicks.
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loops
New Member
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Post by loops on Mar 3, 2017 1:37:26 GMT -5
I can't even speak to Sam right now. What the hell was that? He's 'in' even though the whole operation went tits up because the BMoL can't fight their way out of a paper bag, had no defences, no contingency plan but 'hey, the Alpha is dead, that's all that matters...'
I don't think that's what Dean had in mind when he asked you to pick a side, Sam.
Also thought the Alpha did way too much monologuing. This seems to be a feature of S12. Info-dump galore and then the bad guy gets ganked in the most uninspiring way.
The opening scene in the bunker was the highlight for me. Dean said his piece and Sam had his back. It was good to see Mary reflect on the things Dean said to her and I warmed to her much more than I have in any other episode. I was content for a moment.
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Post by thesnowleopard on Mar 3, 2017 3:01:44 GMT -5
Yep. That, too. Though he and Mary seem to be a lot closer now. Except that Sam just picked up the Idjit Ball that Mary dropped. He and Mary seem to be closer? Not from where I was watching. Dean was forced into that - apologise yet again and made to take back everything that he said in the beginning to Mary which was well-deserved. Shades of earlier seasons - Kripke, Gamble, Dabb, Singer! At this point I am going with the "Dean is adopted" or "was switched at birth" thought. The rest of them John, Mary & Sam all of them are dicks. Dean wasn't forced into anything. The storyline between him and Mary is quieter than the one between her and Sam, but it has all of the important high points and closely follows the one we saw between Dean and Castiel in the Lily Sunder ep. Dean was right in that one, too, but there's more to life than being right all the time, especially when sticking to your higher ground means letting your loved ones go off to possible death thinking you hate them. When push shoved, Dean was still willing to lay down his life rather than save himself and risk killing Castiel, even though he was *massively* and justifiably pissed off at Castiel at the time. Similarly, he couldn't get to the Super-Sekrit LoL Hideout fast enough when he thought Mary was about to be overwhelmed by vampires. Dean's attitude didn't really change from beginning to end and it didn't need to. Mary's did. Until this week, her eldest had been chasing her for a relationship and she had been running away. This week, he finally got tired of it and called her on it. And then he froze her out for a while. Storywise, this gave us a chance to see how Mary would react, how she *really* felt about her son (call it Big Yellow Taxi Syndrome), and how she felt was hurt and contrite. We got the back-and-forth between Sam trying to talk Dean out of being pissed off (which always pisses Dean off more), and Mary reading through her increasingly desperate and begging texts to Dean, and the total silence from Dean. Now *she* was chasing *him*. And at the end, when Dean admitted that he had come as fast as he could because he was worried about her, Mary looked grateful and started to apologize. Dean then stopped her and proceeded to acknowledge the adult relationship between them that had grown up over this season, that the fantasy they'd both had of his childhood was no longer real, but that they do have something that is real and is worth fighting for. Considering the last time the show used this plot, it involved Grandpa Shady using up his extended family to take the Alpha Vamp for Crowley, that's a pretty big thing. Mary isn't Grandpa Shady. She responded differently in a similar situation and so did Dean. I don't think the episode was all that great writing-wise, but I do think Jensen and Samantha knocked it out of the park on this aspect.
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Post by thesnowleopard on Mar 3, 2017 3:08:24 GMT -5
I can't even speak to Sam right now. What the hell was that? He's 'in' even though the whole operation went tits up because the BMoL can't fight their way out of a paper bag, had no defences, no contingency plan but 'hey, the Alpha is dead, that's all that matters...' I don't think that's what Dean had in mind when he asked you to pick a side, Sam. Also thought the Alpha did way too much monologuing. This seems to be a feature of S12. Info-dump galore and then the bad guy gets ganked in the most uninspiring way. The opening scene in the bunker was the highlight for me. Dean said his piece and Sam had his back. It was good to see Mary reflect on the things Dean said to her and I warmed to her much more than I have in any other episode. I was content for a moment. In all fairness, the Alpha always did monologue, even back in season six. Though...yeah. It's as though Dabb thought "Family Matters" was a really successful episode and decided to redo it with Mary in the Grandpa Shady role. I'm curious to see if fandom will warm to Mary the way they did Rowena once she got away from Crowley, now that Mary has passed the idjit Ball to her son for a while and appears reconciled with Dean. Personally, I'd like to see her hunt with Dean a bit. Retch seems quite obsessed with her, but then, they really built him up as an Anti-Dean this week.
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Post by nitar on Mar 3, 2017 5:55:38 GMT -5
He and Mary seem to be closer? Not from where I was watching. Dean was forced into that - apologise yet again and made to take back everything that he said in the beginning to Mary which was well-deserved. Shades of earlier seasons - Kripke, Gamble, Dabb, Singer! At this point I am going with the "Dean is adopted" or "was switched at birth" thought. The rest of them John, Mary & Sam all of them are dicks. Dean wasn't forced into anything. The storyline between him and Mary is quieter than the one between her and Sam, but it has all of the important high points and closely follows the one we saw between Dean and Castiel in the Lily Sunder ep. Dean was right in that one, too, but there's more to life than being right all the time, especially when sticking to your higher ground means letting your loved ones go off to possible death thinking you hate them. When push shoved, Dean was still willing to lay down his life rather than save himself and risk killing Castiel, even though he was *massively* and justifiably pissed off at Castiel at the time. Similarly, he couldn't get to the Super-Sekrit LoL Hideout fast enough when he thought Mary was about to be overwhelmed by vampires. Dean's attitude didn't really change from beginning to end and it didn't need to. Mary's did. Until this week, her eldest had been chasing her for a relationship and she had been running away. This week, he finally got tired of it and called her on it. And then he froze her out for a while. Storywise, this gave us a chance to see how Mary would react, how she *really* felt about her son (call it Big Yellow Taxi Syndrome), and how she felt was hurt and contrite. We got the back-and-forth between Sam trying to talk Dean out of being pissed off (which always pisses Dean off more), and Mary reading through her increasingly desperate and begging texts to Dean, and the total silence from Dean. Now *she* was chasing *him*. And at the end, when Dean admitted that he had come as fast as he could because he was worried about her, Mary looked grateful and started to apologize. Dean then stopped her and proceeded to acknowledge the adult relationship between them that had grown up over this season, that the fantasy they'd both had of his childhood was no longer real, but that they do have something that is real and is worth fighting for. Considering the last time the show used this plot, it involved Grandpa Shady using up his extended family to take the Alpha Vamp for Crowley, that's a pretty big thing. Mary isn't Grandpa Shady. She responded differently in a similar situation and so did Dean. I don't think the episode was all that great writing-wise, but I do think Jensen and Samantha knocked it out of the park on this aspect. Sounds better when you put it - honestly wish I had just read your reviews and not seen the episode. Really. I love reading your reviews and your take on things. At this point I am still too pissed at Sam, Mary, Dabb, Berens, Singer and the rest of the assbutt to be objective so maybe I need to take a few days before I comment further. It just seems to me that its only Dean who does the forgiving and being the better person. No one else ever does it - they never see his side of things and screw it - I don't want to be fair to them. And honestly? I really don't like Mary or Sam right now.
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Post by cluelessdrifter on Mar 3, 2017 6:01:43 GMT -5
At this point I am still too pissed at Sam, Mary, Dabb, Berens, Singer and the rest of the assbutt to be objective so maybe I need to take a few days before I comment further. It just seems to me that its only Dean who does the forgiving and being the better person. No one else ever does it - they never see his side of things and screw it - I don't want to be fair to them. And honestly? I really don't like Mary or Sam right now. But that's when you should comment. It makes for greater discussion. And Dean is the one who does the forgiving and being a better person, but I think it's because he is the better person. I also think it shows a maturity the others lack. He's mad. He voices it. Once it's all out, he forgives. I'd still really like them to at least acknowledge that he is the oldest in their family now and the true leader. I think it would add depth to their interactions together and be interesting.
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Post by cluelessdrifter on Mar 3, 2017 6:10:34 GMT -5
Is there a break after the episode next week?
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Post by aduty1 on Mar 3, 2017 7:39:25 GMT -5
The episode was worse then I imagined. My gut told me not to watch this episode since I read the synopsis but I caved. I have totally lost faith in this show. Glynn is the only writer that seems to give a damn about Dean and her only other episode left this year is going to be tainted by Berens. I had prepared for "the BoL are the greatest ever and can kill more monsters then TFW did in the entire series." I was ready for Super Sammy (and his supermom Mary) who is the best hunter ever in the history of the universe. But what I can't handle is Dean having to apologize AGAIN when he was right and Sam making the wrong decision AGAIN and promising Mick to pull Dean down with him. I am done this season. I think I'm just going to stop watching and hope the CW realizes they have another Gamble situation and get a new show runner that cares. Then maybe when the show ends it will be on a high note.
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Post by paforrest on Mar 3, 2017 7:49:05 GMT -5
Yep. That, too. Though he and Mary seem to be a lot closer now. Except that Sam just picked up the Idjit Ball that Mary dropped. He and Mary seem to be closer? Not from where I was watching. Dean was forced into that - apologise yet again and made to take back everything that he said in the beginning to Mary which was well-deserved. Shades of earlier seasons - Kripke, Gamble, Dabb, Singer! At this point I am going with the "Dean is adopted" or "was switched at birth" thought. The rest of them John, Mary & Sam all of them are dicks. I've been mostly AFK dealing with a family matter, but I got on twitter last night and read the Dean-fan reaction to this episode. Haven't watched it and I don't know that I want to bother with even the few Dean scenes, especially if the one is totally negated at the end by the patented and frustrating Dean-apology for nothing, for the 3-millionth time. But I have to admit at one time earlier in the series I always thought Kripke was leading up to revealing that Dean was adopted, and more than ever that's my head canon now given Dabb's version of Mary Sue. For me it totally clarifies the info dump we got in the hunter funeral episode that showed Mary essentially abandoning an infant Dean for who knows how long to go play hunter in Canada, because that was clearly more important to her and she had obviously no concern or affection for said infant she was leaving behind. At this point I'm picturing a mash-up scenario of The Omen and This is Us whereby Mary loses the baby we saw her carrying in SRTS in the hospital, and there's a motherless infant in the hospital at the same time that either John passes off as Mary's, or both John and Mary decide together to bring him home. But Mary never bonds with him, because he ain't hers, and once Mary dies, John can't pretend anymore and thereafter treats Dean as the servant-nanny/soldier he always did instead of a son. I'm serious, this is my head-canon now, because it's the only thing that makes sense. Clearly Sam and Mary and two narcissistic peas in a pod, and we know John's loyalty would lie with the two of them. Dean is very much an outsider in this horrible family dynamic - he's just nothing like any of them. Thank goodness. Unfortunately revealing such a scenario on screen would require more than Meredith Glynn as the single resident Dean-fan writer BTS. It would require attention paid to the character by the showrunners, and there's obviously no interest whatsoever in Dean Winchester. So I just have to go on thinking it myself - I don't think I could even FF through the rest of this series any other way.
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Post by nitar on Mar 3, 2017 11:43:59 GMT -5
The episode was worse then I imagined. My gut told me not to watch this episode since I read the synopsis but I caved. I have totally lost faith in this show. Glynn is the only writer that seems to give a damn about Dean and her only other episode left this year is going to be tainted by Berens. I had prepared for "the BoL are the greatest ever and can kill more monsters then TFW did in the entire series." I was ready for Super Sammy (and his supermom Mary) who is the best hunter ever in the history of the universe. But what I can't handle is Dean having to apologize AGAIN when he was right and Sam making the wrong decision AGAIN and promising Mick to pull Dean down with him. I am done this season. I think I'm just going to stop watching and hope the CW realizes they have another Gamble situation and get a new show runner that cares. Then maybe when the show ends it will be on a high note. I agree. I'm fast reaching this state. I have never been tempted to stop watching Supernatural - admittedly I started watching live only in S8 so I was still keen on it. But this is the first time I am actually forcing myself to watch an episode. At this point I definitely don't want to watch the next episode - am not going to watch Perez live ever. Then maybe depending on how this season ends - lets see. I wonder if they will really care if the Dean fans stop watching.
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Post by anouck9 on Mar 3, 2017 11:55:50 GMT -5
I wonder if they will really care if the Dean fans stop watching. Only if it starts affecting the ratings. And even there... depends on how long they plan to keep the show on air. Besides the fact that the show is starting to piss me off real real bad, I'm sometimes feeling like I'm already watching a spin-off... I didn't expect much from Dabb, but damn, did he manage to exceed it in doing actually worse!
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Post by thesnowleopard on Mar 4, 2017 1:21:49 GMT -5
The show came in third this week on the network, ahead of Arrow again, so it's safe enough. That said, the show has made course corrections in the past, especially around this time of the season. I notice we haven't seen Toni the Twat since episode two, even though she was supposed to be a recurring character. Wonder if they'll bring her back just to kill her off.
My takeaway is that it was about the Winchesters choosing sides. Dean and Mary chose family. Sam chose the LoL and the prospect of a "normal" life. So...business as usual, then.
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Post by denise42 on Mar 4, 2017 4:54:52 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode, I didn’t think I would due to it being Dean lite, as you can tell I am a Deans girl. I can understand Jensen wanted to be with his family, for the birth of his twins.
I was pleased they continued with the conversation between Mary and the boys. I was sad to see Sam wanting to join the men of letters, why doesn’t Sam just say to Dean he wants to work with them instead of being sneaky and going behind his back again. Dean is going to feel so betrayed again by his whole family. Dean and Mr Ketch can team up I suppose, but Dean is nothing like him.
Had they teamed up when Dean had the Mark of Cain, it might have been a different story.
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Post by thesnowleopard on Mar 4, 2017 6:05:32 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode, I didn’t think I would due to it being Dean lite, as you can tell I am a Deans girl. I can understand Jensen wanted to be with his family, for the birth of his twins. I was pleased they continued with the conversation between Mary and the boys. I was sad to see Sam wanting to join the men of letters, why doesn’t Sam just say to Dean he wants to work with them instead of being sneaky and going behind his back again. Dean is going to feel so betrayed again by his whole family. Dean and Mr Ketch can team up I suppose, but Dean is nothing like him. Had they teamed up when Dean had the Mark of Cain, it might have been a different story. I think Dean's reconciliation with Mary at the end was motivated in large part by looking at Retch and his unapologetic misogyny, and thinking, "This is not me. This is not how I want to end up." At the end of the day, Mary is his mother, both biologically and though nurture. She's the woman who carried him to term. Who sang him to sleep at night and made him soup when he was sick. A woman whose absence he missed so fiercely for *decades* that he threw his own beloved baby brother up against a bridge pylon for daring to speak remotely ill of her. He didn't have that kind of relationship with Grandpa Shady and also, Mary never pushed things as far with her sons as her father did. She did come clean without having it dragged out of her and she was contrite at the end of this week. Plus, she did beg him to reconcile when he cut off contact with her, indicating that relationship they'd once shared was not entirely a fantasy inside his head. So, those things all weighed in her favor, as well. One could argue that Dean was justified in continuing to freeze Mary out, but I don't think anybody wants Dean Winchester to be a person who'd disown his own mother.
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Post by fishpan on Mar 4, 2017 6:45:40 GMT -5
So we have it confirmed that the MoL are straight up terrorist profiling. Oh that didn't backfire did it even with the vamp alpha being taken out.
Dean reconciles with his mother because one she is his mother and now he's spent time with the psycho probably gunning to be his new step daddy.
And Sam (unless there is a twist which I don't trust to come) is going into round 552 of making idjit decisions as the bunker wouldn't have been attacked if the MoL hadn't gone wholesale on the vamp genocide.
And Mary just wants monsters to be gone so her sons can have normal - has she met Dean? If she wants to make it up to him and Sam for losing their childhoods how about she actually spends some time with them?
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