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Post by Mystique on Mar 30, 2017 1:10:19 GMT -5
So, what would you rate it?
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Post by thesnowleopard on Mar 30, 2017 20:15:12 GMT -5
Mixed feelings. At least we had Smart Dean (*and* Smart Sam) this week and they remembered his bond with Claire. Too bad they botched the LoL/Mick part and what the holy hell was going on with turning Claire into a DiD? So much hate for that.
Plus, I'm so over everyone but Dean getting kills these days.
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Post by onali on Mar 30, 2017 21:20:17 GMT -5
I was going to give it a 7, I liked it. But then Snow reminded me of yet another kill Dean didn't get.
Positives: 10/10 for Ackting (when was the last time we saw Jensen get even a little undressed??? Season 10, showerscene)
Finally an episode without a dissappearing act. Liked Sam telling Claire off.
The little HP squibs and I laughed out loud with dr. Buckingham.
Negatives: Again with the f-up on werewolve lore. Garth can control his changes, so why does Claire need to be locked up a couple of days every month. Even Kate can control her urges. Only Madison was out of control and didn't know what was happening.
Dean not getting the kill.
Repetitive how awful the/ a cure is. We saw it with Alex and heard about it with the one with the hunting kids, yet with Dean we saw 20 seconds of agony and he was peachy after that.
The moment of Claire's death was too short. Side note, last time they didn't call Cass. He was the one who wanted to have contact with her. Why wasn't he even notified/ called. They shifted the father/ caretaker role on Sam and Dean, instead of Cass.
Another bloodcure, vampire, demon and now werewolve.
So I am giving it a 5.5/6 out of 10
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Post by saltgunempty on Mar 30, 2017 23:32:26 GMT -5
I'm just going to knock points off for things I didn't like
-2: LoL. Mick sucks, their special history grates, ohhh fancy British people is stupid and they force stupidity on the main characters to exist. They apparently experiment on animals for Supernatural cures because of course they do. So scientific and stuff. Civilized and advanced... -2 was being fairly nice. -1: Dean didn't get the kill again and we didn't see him swimming -1.5: Supernatural does werewolves and gives me a Garth scare -1: Claire becomes stupid because... lazy writing?
It could have been better but it was kind of doomed from the beginning given LoL and werewolves. At least dean got to be part of saving Claire and Claire wasn't written badly for the entire episode.
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Post by aduty1 on Mar 31, 2017 8:00:48 GMT -5
I rated it lower mostly because my hopes were so high for it. Glynn was writing this so she was my last hope for one last good dean story this year. Once again, we get more build up on how super the BoL are. I guess the "tease" for 13 is they are trying the spin off again. On the surface it looks like a Buffy/Giles thing with Clair and Mick, good luck with that. So the BoL have taken down hundreds of U.S monsters now (probably all by Mary and Ketch) all in the course of 16 episodes making Sam and Dean look ridiculous. To make up for it Sam gets a yellow eye, Alpha and mother of all Hellhounds and Dean gets to wander around the woods. It almost makes me root for the writers strike so the CW can get a new showrunner before the current one writes this one into cancellation.
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Post by Mystique on Mar 31, 2017 8:03:41 GMT -5
5/10 for me
I liked the 1st half much better than the 2nd. Loved Dean's death stare at Sam about his Hogwarts mention. His phone call to Claire and her reaction was funny. Him not being interested (like Sam was) in the research and podcast lectures, but down for using the BMoL for the free crap they're willing to hand out as they work with them. And I loved how Dean made it abundantly clear that he doesn't work for them. I would have preferred more Dean than Sam with Claire scenes, as theirs IMO have a more genuine feel and flow to them. I do not find Claire bratty, as I find (on-screen and through dialog) others around her unyielding to respectfully allow her to live a life of her own as she sees fit, and (much like Dean) would love for the critical people in her life to lay off her, actually be supportive, and stop trying to force her to be someone she is not.
The BMoL having the "cure", Dean being rescued by inept Mick (who got the kill), having Claire act like a boneheaded DiD to get bitten, and the MoTW was friggin stupid. I loathed that Cas had been a non-entity in this (like last) episode Claire was in, and the end was atrocious with her calling Jody her mother.
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Post by paforrest on Mar 31, 2017 12:04:15 GMT -5
I rated it lower mostly because my hopes were so high for it. Glynn was writing this so she was my last hope for one last good dean story this year. Once again, we get more build up on how super the BoL are. I guess the "tease" for 13 is they are trying the spin off again. On the surface it looks like a Buffy/Giles thing with Clair and Mick, good luck with that. So the BoL have taken down hundreds of U.S monsters now (probably all by Mary and Ketch) all in the course of 16 episodes making Sam and Dean look ridiculous. To make up for it Sam gets a yellow eye, Alpha and mother of all Hellhounds and Dean gets to wander around the woods. It almost makes me root for the writers strike so the CW can get a new showrunner before the current one writes this one into cancellation. I'll admit I'm not "almost" rooting for a writers strike. I think me and this show need to take a long time out. Maybe we'll both be better off for the break. I too rated this much lower for the same reason - higher expectations because, after her first two scripts, I really counted on Glynn staying the course as the lone Dean fan on staff. My mistake because, sadly, she's new, she's green, and apparently was brought to heel by Dabb too easily and too quickly. So now what can I look forward to? This was I think the most obvious attempt at a backdoor pilot for Claire, probably with the intention to include a generous helping of Dabb's pets Mick and the BMoL. Dean and Sam were there, and that's pretty much all they were - putting their guest-starring presence and name stamp on yet another spin-off attempt. Good luck with it, I don't give a damn, just go forth and do and suck or not. I. Don't. Care. The biggest disappointment was Glynn falling into the mandate of never ever again allowing Dean to have another kill. At this point Dean may as well clear out the Impala trunk and use it to carry groceries or flowers or something, because he has zero need of guns or machetes or anything remotely along the line of "hunting" tools anymore. It's become quite the weekly drinking meme - how will Dean not get the kill or be an effective hunter this week? DRINK! But, hey, at least he wasn't sent to the cornfield, which is the other and far worse Dean meme of the week. As our orange dictator would say, sad! As for surly Claire and the perpetual retconning of werewolf lore, whatevs. 3/10 - and that's being way generous.
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Post by frozen_delight on Apr 1, 2017 10:12:39 GMT -5
I do not find Claire bratty, as I find (on-screen and through dialog) others around her unyielding to respectfully allow her to live a life of her own as she sees fit, and (much like Dean) would love for the critical people in her life to lay off her, actually be supportive, and stop trying to force her to be someone she is not. I feel the same. She's got plenty of people who're willing to die for her, but no one who's supportive and accepting in all the little ways that matter. It really irked me how Sam criticised her diet, called Jody behind her back and told her what to do within a day of meeting her after more than a year in which he probably had zero direct contact with her. So I could fully understand her lashing out at Sam, and I hated how she essentially took back her criticism of his behaviour at the end of the episode and accepted that this kind of patronising treatment is the best thing she can hope for in her sad little life.
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Post by thesnowleopard on Apr 1, 2017 15:04:08 GMT -5
Actually, I agreed with Sam this week when he told her that if she wanted to be treated like an adult, she should start by acting like one. Adults don't engage in willfully self-destructive behavior and a pattern of "rescue me" gameplaying. People who love those engaging in such behavior don't just shrug and stand by while the person is doing that.
And I disagree that all the adults in the story were unsupportive. Dean was supportive in helping her hunt, getting her a solid meal without criticizing how she'd been eating up to that point, and in helping her deal with having been bitten. He was willing to accept her even as a werewolf and only objected to the cure because it sounded more like a really horrible way to get experimented on to death by the LoL than a cure. He even was the one who handled her without killing her while she was wolfing out and trying to eat him. That's the only reason Wolf Boy got the drop on him.
Also, part of why that makes Claire a bit annoying (though I do like her overall, I think that part of her needs to evolve, already) is that they already did it with Jo and Jo was an entitled little brat with daddy issues in a 20-something body. As long as Jo was like that, she was unpopular with the audience. In fact, when *Sam* was like that, he annoyed a considerable portion of the audience.
They need to figure out other coming-of-age narratives for young women (or young men, for that matter) if they really want to do that female-oriented spinoff someday.
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Post by sleepersix on Apr 3, 2017 14:46:50 GMT -5
Hmm . . . maybe I had my expectations too low, but I actually enjoyed this one.
I enjoyed Claire more than I have before. She was still lashing out here and there, but I like that Sam called her out on it, and that she at least recognized how much she owes Jody and co. I liked seeing that balance between trying to please others who you're indebted to, but also carving out an identity that feels right for you.
I don't know, Claire just seems to be getting more and more "Dean," which I'm intrigued by. Her confession that she's "barely keeping it together on a good day" was very Dean. And her decision to immediately off herself before she can hurt anyone she loves seemed like the exact logic Dean would use. I also liked that even though she stated that she has "all the votes," it was still very important to her that Dean supported her decision. I like the constant tug-of-war she seems to be having between "It's my life, I do what I want" and "I'm not invincible, I need you." I could see how that continual whiplashing could come across as bratty or flaky or immature--and it certainly has in past Claire episodes--but here it seemed to be a conflict she was genuinely struggling with, and frustrated with because she couldn't decide to just be a Total Rebel or a Good Surrogate Daughter.
I continue to love the Dean/Claire dynamic. She certainly has potential to be the Bat Girl to his Batman. I think she clearly connects with him and tries to emulate him, even if she'd never admit it.
Also--and maybe this is completely base-less if they used only stuntwomen--but I think Kat Newton does a much better job at selling physicality than any of the other teeny boppers the've brought on, including Charlie, who was supposed to become a mega-ninja by the end. She's got a scrappy fight style that I like, and I'm curious if Jensen's mentored her at all.
Overall, I still think the character needs some work, and maybe I'll go back to hating Claire again by the next episode, but for now I actually wouldn't mind a spin-off with her--something I never thought I'd say when she first showed up.
I even liked Mick alright. He was lame and a dick, but he was called out on it multiple times by himself and others. And he has a fun "odd couple" dynamic with Dean. I think the actor's bringing more than the usual wooden performances we tend to get from angels/demons/BMoL cannon-fodder. Usually I'd be pissed by lame secondary characters taking over the screen time, but in this case I thought both Mick and Claire complemented Sam and Dean well, while bringing their own flavor to the mix.
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Post by thesnowleopard on Apr 3, 2017 20:00:40 GMT -5
I do like Claire, and she's already admitted she looks up to Dean as a role model (she even said that when he was full-on bonkers with the MoC), but I agree that they need to work on the balance and central conflict in her character more.
As for Mick, I have very mixed feelings about him. The actor's decent and seems to be having fun on the set, plus seeing the character get some much-needed life lessons is satisfying. But the entire concept of the LoL is the suck that keeps on sucking and it actually seems to be getting more ridiculous, not less.
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Post by saltgunempty on Apr 3, 2017 21:16:48 GMT -5
Claire is a victim of the show struggling with young characters not being bratty douches who get weirdly built up. The character has good bones and good chemistry with JA but she'll have the standard moments. She's the best younger character I can think of in a long time, though.
Mick would be better if he wasn't part of the LoL. He could serve as a character having a decent learning curve and expanding the spn world but i can't see that happening while he's attached to such a crappy storyline. As is, he's a character that can be smacked down satisfyingly and then I'll get annoyed at any "win" he has. I doubt he lasts long enough to be a good character, or he'll die as soon as I like him.
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Post by anouck9 on Apr 4, 2017 3:11:28 GMT -5
As for Mick, I have very mixed feelings about him. The actor's decent and seems to be having fun on the set, plus seeing the character get some much-needed life lessons is satisfying. But the entire concept of the LoL is the suck that keeps on sucking and it actually seems to be getting more ridiculous, not less. The show seems to push for a "learning/redemption" arc for Mick and I have a big issue with that, since it would imply blanking the fact that he was the one sending Psycho Ketch (and possibly Mary sometimes too) kill his "targets". So rdemption arc for the guy just because he didn't do the killing himself doesn't sit well with me. Neither does the tonight's "wake up call" about what he does that must come in the shape of two young girls, and not, say, a freshly minted werewolved homeless guy, or hey, not killing the people of the secret facility in First Blood... At any rate, i truly hope that the LOL drivel comes to an end, and quick, because I'm really struggling right now, even in an episode full of Smart Dean like this one.
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